Virginia Tech shooting & 2 gun bills: Pa-HB760 / Va-HB1

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PokerBass
Acolyte
Posts: 437

Virginia Tech shooting & 2 gun bills: Pa-HB760 / Va-HB1

Post#1 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:45 am

Names have been removed to protect the innocent - or something like that. What was the line in Shawshank Redemption - "We're all innocent in here. Ain't that right, boys?"

This comes from a 2A email group in regards to yesterday's shooting at Virginia Tech.

On a side note, I have yet to hear a single name mentioned as to the perpetrator(s). The only thing I can verify is that it was reported (which does not equate to reality) that a suspect was in custody when round two started in a 2nd building. This would allude to multiple perps with at least the 2nd taking his own life. I will be curious to see if there is a history of psychotropic drug prescriptions and/or use for his/her/their better mental health.

d

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

-Reply to email alert below-

Thank you for forwarding and I agree with YYY's assessment of the
spokesworm.

I wonder just how many of the students there that day were wishing they had
their guns with them just like Hupp at Lubby's. Yes, it would've required a
Mozambique Drill, but we all train that way, right?

It's high time we start conspicuously ignoring bad laws en mass and
promoting jury nullification en mass, too.
And stop raising so many sheeple and start raising more sheepdogs.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Friends:

PLEASE use the fact that the VA legislature turned down HB 1572 in
all of the materials I'm sure you'll be composing.


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Forwarded from YYY (comments by YYY at bottom)


Deadly shooting rampage at Va. college
By Mike Holtzclaw
Daily Press
Published April 16, 2007, 11:47 AM CDT

BLACKSBURG, Va. -- At least 22 Virginia Tech students are dead and many
others have been injured in a pair of campus shootings this morning.

Initial reports said there was only one fatality, but at a noon news
conference campus officials announced that there were more than 20, and
more
than two dozen others injured. At the news conference, the officials also
said the gunman himself was dead, though earlier reports had him in police
custody.

At least one local student, Denbigh Baptist graduate Matt Webster, was
among
those shot. According to family friends, Webster was shot in the arm while
attending a class. The extent of his injuries was not known, but they are
reportedly not life-threatening.

The assaults took place in the West Amblin Johnston Hall dormitory and the
Norris Hall classroom building. None of the victims or suspects has been
identified by police.

"Police have one shooter in custody, and as part of routine police
procedure
they continue to search for a second shooter," the university said in a
written statement.

The first shooting occurred at West Ambler Johnston Hall, a co-ed
dormitory
with 895 students. The second shooting was at Norris Hall a short time
later.

Steve Mehr, a Virginia Tech freshman from Tabb High School, said he knew
something was wrong before he heard about the shooting.

"I was walking home from my 9 o'clock class and hearing sirens
everywhere,"
he said. "I had no idea what it was about, but people were running to
their
dorms and the buildings were locked down, so you had to have your key card
to get in If that's happening, you know something's going on."

Mehr described the campus as being in "a very hectic state."

He said he has a friend on the fourth floor of West Ambler Johnston Hall,
where the first shooting took place. As he spoke by phone from his
fifth-floor dorm room in Pritchard Hall, he looked out the window and
described heavily armed police officers on the grounds. At one point, he
said he heard gunfire -- "a lot of gunfire" -- but he later said the
officers appeared to be checking the area.

Brenden Hill of Newport News, who graduated from Virginia Tech in December
and still lives just off campus, was still waiting for more information on
the shootings, which prompted university officials to lock down the
campus.

"The weather has been so bad out here that I don't know if a lot of
students
were out in the first place," Hill said. "The weird thing is that we've
had
some bomb threats the last couple of weeks, and everybody is a little
frustrated with the Blacksburg Police Department. The campus police is
usually pretty good about getting information out to us, but there's very
limited information being distributed on this thing today."

On Friday, a bomb threat on campus forced the cancellation of classes in
three buildings, and earlier this month the Torgerson Hall dormitory was
evacuated after a bomb threat.

Hill, a football player who still works out on campus while preparing for
the NFL draft, said he was planning to go to the athletic complex -- very
close to West Amblin Johnston Hall -- later in the day.

"But everything is shut down right now," he said. "I'm worried about some
of
my teammates over there. I hope they're all OK."
----------------------------------------------------------

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
YYY writes:

What's worse is, HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college
campuses, died in subcommittee in January of this year in the name of
"*public
safety*".

Quote: "Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill
was
defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the
General
Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and
visitors feel safe on our campus."

That fucking self-righteous cocksucker.

----------------------------------------------------------
From: http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658

Gun bill gets shot down by panel
HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died in
subcommittee.
By Greg Esposito
381-1675

A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to
carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General
Assembly.

House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police
and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of
several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws.

The bill was proposed by Del. Todd Gilbert, R-Shenandoah County, on behalf
of the Virginia Citizens Defense League. Gilbert was unavailable Monday
and
spokesman Gary Frink would not comment on the bill's defeat other than to
say the issue was dead for this General Assembly session.

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was
defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the
General
Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and
visitors feel safe on our campus."

Del. Dave Nutter, R-Christiansburg, would not comment Monday because he
was
not part of the subcommittee that discussed the bill.

Most universities in Virginia require students and employees, other than
police, to check their guns with police or campus security upon entering
campus. The legislation was designed to prohibit public universities from
making "rules or regulations limiting or abridging the ability of a
student
who possesses a valid concealed handgun permit ... from lawfully carrying
a
concealed handgun."

The legislation allowed for exceptions for participants in athletic
events,
storage of guns in residence halls and military training programs.

Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for bringing a handgun
to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners
questioned the university's authority, while the Virginia Association of
Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus.

In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy
reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting
visitors from bringing them into

www.neardeathexperiments.com - Survival According to Darwinism
"Every normal man must, at times, be tempted to spit on his hands, hoist
the
black flag and begin slitting throats."

hangman
Acolyte
Posts: 1087

Post#2 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 11:57 am

And in all cases such as this, the usual suspects will demand guns be taken away from the folks who didn't do it.

PokerBass
Acolyte
Posts: 437

solution found in the movies

Post#3 » Tue Apr 17, 2007 2:39 pm

I prefer the method used in Fast Times At Ridgmont High when Spicoli has a pizza delivered to class. As a punishment for the professor's forestated rules about eating in class, the pizza is taken away from Spicoli and enjoyed by the rest of the class.

Translate that into the gun crime world, and it would equate to taking the abusers guns away and handing one out to everyone else.

SWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

d

PokerBass
Acolyte
Posts: 437

shooter referred for counseling before massacre

Post#4 » Wed Apr 18, 2007 1:26 pm

No mention of Xanax or other mind mutilating meds. But, I did find this quote at the end of an article posted under General Christianity.

"Authorities have identified the shooter as Cho Seung-Hui, 23, a senior English major at the school whose class writings were so disturbing he previously had been referred for counseling."

This was the only mention of Cho Seung-Hui in a WorldNet Daily article posted here under the title Va Tech convocation cites Allah-Buddha-Dalai Lama...no Jesus.

pokerkid
Site Admin
Posts: 7781

Unarmed And Dangerous

Post#5 » Fri Apr 20, 2007 5:21 pm

Unarmed And Dangerous
INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY
April 19, 2007
http://www.investors.com/editorial/edit ... 3389636988


Gun Control: Five years ago, armed college students subdued a gunman
embarking on a college killing spree. Last year, Virginia Tech applauded
the fact that its students couldn't do the same.

On Jan. 16, 2002 , a killer stalked the campus of the Appalachian School
of Law in Grundy, Va., not far from the site of Monday's massacre at
Virginia Tech in Blacksburg. A disgruntled former student killed Law
Dean L. Anthony Sutin, associate professor Thomas Blackwell and a student.

Two of the three law students who overpowered Peter Odighizuwa before he
could kill more innocent victims were armed. Mikael Gross and Tracy
Bridges, seeing the killing spree begin, went to their cars, retrieved
their guns and used them to disarm the shooter.

As John Lott Jr. tells it in his book, "The Bias Against Guns" (Regnery,
2003), while most were fleeing the gunman, "Mikael and Tracy were
prepared to do something quite different: Both immediately ran to their
cars and got their guns. Mikael had to run about one hundred yards to
get to his car."

Lott continues: "Along with Ted Besen (who was unarmed), they approached
Peter from different sides. As Tracy explains it, "I stopped at my
vehicle and got a handgun, a revolver. Ted went toward Peter, and I
aimed the gun at (Peter), and Peter tossed his gun down." Then the three
jumped on the gunman and the killing stopped.

Bernard Goldberg, in his book "Arrogance" (Warner, 2003), reports how
the media reported the tragic events of that day. He notes that Lott did
a LexisNexis search and found that only four of 208 news reports
mentioned the rescuers had guns. James Eaves-Johnson did his own
LexisNexis search for the Daily Iowan (University of Iowa) and found
that only two of 88 stories mentioned that armed students subdued the
killer and prevented more deaths.

Similarly, few media outlets have mentioned that, in the right-to-carry
state of Virginia — whose freshman senator, James Webb, packs heat, and
whose aide was caught carrying that gun in a bag onto Senate grounds —
the Virginia Tech campus was a gun-free zone. At least for the prey, if
not the predators. And Virginia Tech officials wanted it that way.

Last year, House Bill 1572 died in the Virginia General Assembly,
failing to even get out of the Committee on Militia, Police and Public
Safety. The legislation was designed, as the Roanoke Times reported, to
prohibit public universities from making "rules or regulations limiting
or abridging the ability of a student who possesses a valid concealed
handgun permit . . . from lawfully carrying a concealed handgun."

On hearing of the bill's defeat, Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker
said: "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General
Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and
visitors feel safe on campus." And predators like Cho Seung-Hui.

One wonders if Cho Seung-Hui would have even walked on campus with a gun
if he knew his victims were able to defend themselves. Or how the story
would have been different had Prof. Liviu Librescu, a Holocaust survivor
who lost his life barricading a classroom door so his students could
escape, had been able to fire back.

###

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Subject: GUN CONTROL ISN'T THE ANSWER


"It would be constitutionally suspect and politically impossible to
confiscate hundreds of millions of weapons. You can declare a place
gun-free, as Virginia Tech had done, and guns will still be brought
there."

Gun control isn't the answer
Why one reaction to Virginia Tech shouldn't be tightening firearm laws.
By James Q. Wilson
Professor of Public policy professor at Pepperdine University
He previously taught at UCLA and Harvard University.
April 20, 2007
<http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la- ... n-underdog>


THE TRAGEDY at Virginia Tech may tell us something about how a young man
could be driven to commit terrible actions, but it does not teach us
very much about gun control.

So far, not many prominent Americans have tried to use the college
rampage as an argument for gun control. One reason is that we are in the
midst of a presidential race in which leading Democratic candidates are
aware that endorsing gun control can cost them votes.

This concern has not prevented the New York Times from editorializing in
favor of "stronger controls over the lethal weapons that cause such
wasteful carnage." Nor has it stopped the European press from beating up
on us unmercifully.

Leading British, French, German, Italian and Spanish newspapers have
blamed the United States for listening to Charlton Heston and the
National Rifle Assn. Many of their claims are a little strange. At least
two papers said we should ban semiautomatic assault weapons (even though
the killer did not use one); another said that buying a machine gun is
easier than getting a driver's license (even though no one can legally
buy a machine gun); a third wrote that gun violence is becoming more
common (when in fact the U.S. homicide rate has fallen dramatically over
the last dozen years).

Let's take a deep breath and think about what we know about gun violence
and gun control.

First: There is no doubt that the existence of some 260 million guns (of
which perhaps 60 million are handguns) increases the death rate in this
country. We do not have drive-by poisonings or drive-by knifings, but we
do have drive-by shootings. Easy access to guns makes deadly violence
more common in drug deals, gang fights and street corner brawls.

However, there is no way to extinguish this supply of guns. It would be
constitutionally suspect and politically impossible to confiscate
hundreds of millions of weapons. You can declare a place gun-free, as
Virginia Tech had done, and guns will still be brought there.

If we want to guess by how much the U.S. murder rate would fall if
civilians had no guns, we should begin by realizing — as criminologists
Franklin Zimring and Gordon Hawkins have shown — that the non-gun
homicide rate in this country is three times higher than the non-gun
homicide rate in England. For historical and cultural reasons, Americans
are a more violent people than the English, even when they can't use a
gun. This fact sets a floor below which the murder rate won't be reduced
even if, by some constitutional or political miracle, we became gun-free.

There are federally required background checks on purchasing weapons;
many states (including Virginia) limit gun purchases to one a month, and
juveniles may not buy them at all. But even if there were even tougher
limits, access to guns would remain relatively easy. Not the least
because, as is true today, many would be stolen and others would be
obtained through straw purchases made by a willing confederate. It is
virtually impossible to use new background check or waiting-period laws
to prevent dangerous people from getting guns. Those that they cannot
buy, they will steal or borrow.

It's also important to note that guns play an important role in
selfdefense. Estimates differ as to how common this is, but the numbers
are not trivial. Somewhere between 100,000 and more than 2 million cases
of self-defense occur every year.

There are many compelling cases. In one Mississippi high school, an
armed administrator apprehended a school shooter. In a Pennsylvania high
school, an armed merchant prevented further deaths. Would an armed
teacher have prevented some of the deaths at Virginia Tech? We cannot
know, but it is not unlikely.

AS FOR THE European disdain for our criminal culture, many of those
countries should not spend too much time congratulating themselves. In
2000, the rate at which people were robbed or assaulted was higher in
England, Scotland, Finland, Poland, Denmark and Sweden than it was in
the United States. The assault rate in England was twice that in the
United States. In the decade since England banned all private possession
of handguns, the BBC reported that the number of gun crimes has gone up
sharply.

Some of the worst examples of mass gun violence have also occurred in
Europe. In recent years, 17 students and teachers were killed by a
shooter in one incident at a German public school; 14 legislators were
shot to death in Switzerland, and eight city council members were shot
to death near Paris.

The main lesson that should emerge from the Virginia Tech killings is
that we need to work harder to identify and cope with dangerously
unstable personalities.

It is a problem for Europeans as well as Americans, one for which there
are no easy solutions — such as passing more gun control laws.

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