Zionist Tries To Co-opt Branch Davidian Movement

Where did they go... assyria and babylon... Where did they disappear to? Who lays claim to lost tribe heritage. Are the modern day Western Europeans direct descendants of the 10 Northeran tribes...
SatanSlayer72
Acolyte
Posts: 219

Zionist Tries To Co-opt Branch Davidian Movement

Post#1 » Thu Mar 20, 2003 3:46 pm

If you read my post in the "General" section about my website being deleted, you may have noticed that I mentioned one "James Trimm" who has started up a site purporting to discuss Branch Davidian theology, but, in reality, the only purpose of it seems to be to promote his own anti-Koresh, anti-patriot movement views. :x Here's the address of this site: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/branch-theology . You can check it out for yourself, and feel free to post your own comments as well. I would only request that you not use any four-letter words, or otherwise you will definitely be deleted. Also, I would suggest that you refrain from using a certain THREE-LETTER-WORD that might prematurely alert this individual of who/what you are, ending in the same result. :wink:



This individual has admitted to being a Jewish theologian, and has never had anything positive to say about Koresh. On the contrary, he has repeatedly stated that he thinks Koresh was a "wicked man" and a "false prophet". Not surprisingly, *NONE* of the Branch Davidian survivors actually post there. :roll: Only the sleazebucket con-artist, Mark Swett, who has tried to profit from the Davidian tragedy, several "friend-of-a-friend" types, and a couple of female high school students. :shock:



In spite of all this, however, he seems quite determined to convince people that Koresh and the Davidians were "Zionists":



From: James Trimm <jstrimm@n...>
Date: Fri Mar 7, 2003 12:15 pm
Subject: David Koresh: Zionist







David Koresh:
Branch Davidian Pro-Israel Zionist



Since the siege on Mt. Carmel in 1993 the surviving Branch Davidians have been championed and befriended by elements from the anti-government movement. At the core of the anti-government movement are anti-semites who not believe not just in a "one world order government conspiracy" but in a "one world Jewish conspiracy" in the image of that taught by Adolf Hitler and his Nazi propaganda machine. These people often refer to this supposed "conspiracy government" as a "Zionist Occupational Government". Unfortunately these anti-Semites have attempted to adopt David Koresh after the fact as one of their own, and some of the surviving BD's have failed to speak up about what David Koresh and Branch Davidianism actually taught on this issue and some have sadly even been taken in by these anti-Semite elements.

In light of this re-writing of history I feel strongly compelled to set the story straight... Branch Davidianism has had a rich history of being Pro-Israel Christian-Zionists and Koresh was no exception.



1. The original Davidian Seal had incorporated into it the Star of David.

2. Houteff identified Nazi Germany with "the Assyrian" in the Bible.

3. Under Ben Roden the Branch Davidians created a Branch Davidian "Zionist" settlement in Israel.

4. Ben Roden wrote several tracts claiming that the establishment of modern Israel and the capture of Jerusalem in '67 were fulfillments of prophecies about the restoration of Judah.

5. The original Branch Davidian seal also incorporated the Star of David into its seal.

6. After Ben's death Lois made many more trips to Israel and studied under Rabbis there. In many of her worlks on the feminine Holy Spirit she quotes from the Rabbinic writings to support her points.

7. In one of her tracts Lois speaks of a future time in which the "wicked nations" of the world would attack modern Israel.

8. Lois took Vernon to Israel and showed him around introducing him to the Rabbis.

9. In 1985 Vernon and Rache rented an apartment in Israel and lived there for several months. Koresh receives the Koresh Message.

10. In 1987 Koresh gives a taped study in which he outlines the Koresh Message. In this message Koresh lays out a future in which the BD's have moved to Israel and befriended the Jews who he predicts will desire to hear his teachings. he predicts that the nations of the world will have a problem with him and that he has a lot of wives and is getting all of these Jewish girls pregnant. The nations move against Jerusalem and the BD's and Jews stand side by side against them and are under siege together.

11. Koresh Rock group Seraphim produces God Rock's t-shirts featuring a fiery flying serpent with six wings outstretched as a Star of David.

12. In 1990 Koresh (had been Vernon) visits Israel again... again studies with the Rabbis... he attends two Orthodox Rabbinic Yeshivas. On this trip Koresh is befriended by Rabbi Avram Feld... they even become drinking buddies. Koresh looked into land permits seeking to move the BD's to Israel. He frequently goes to Ben Yehudah street and plays Chassidic melodies on his guitar.

13. One of the Branches that died in the fire was a Jewish Israeli citizen.

14. Every Davidian/BD flag to fly over Old or New Mt. Carmel featured a Star of David including the banner over the Center during the seige.


David's Beast was a one world conspiracy was a conspiracy of the "Protestant Nations" with the Whore, the Roman Catholic Church. SDA had always identified the Whore in this way... From the time of Ben Roden the BD's had always taught that the conspiracy they wanted to escape by going to Israel was that of an enforced national Sunday Blue Law. This was ANYTHING but a one world Jewish Conspiracy it was a Gentile Christian conspiracy they hoped to escape by going to Israel were they would share the Saturday Sabbath and the Feasts with the Jews until the day the Protestant nations would come against them.

James Trimm


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Now, for those of you not familiar with the Davidian teachings, I will respond to each of Mr. Trimm's "points" individually:



#1. "The original Davidian Seal had incorporated into it the Star of David."



That was only because they believed *THEMSELVES* to be the "Israel" of Biblical prophecy.



#2. "Houteff identified Nazi Germany with 'the Assyrian' in the Bible."



And your point is....? Nazism and Zionism are *NOT* mutually exclusive. Far from it. In fact, Hitler collaborated with the Zionists to help create the racist, fascist state of Israel, which was, in part, patterned after Nazi Germany itself. When you consider the fact that Hitler was 1/4 Jewish, descended from the Illuminati Rothschild family, this makes perfect sense.



#3. "Under Ben Roden the Branch Davidians created a Branch Davidian 'Zionist' settlement in Israel."



From what I have read, Houteff and the Rodens saw the so-called "nation" of Israel as having much more prophetic significance than Koresh did. Quite possibly, they, like many other Christians, were inspired by Bible verses referring to a "place of safety" that would exist during the End Times, and saw that "place of safety" as being within the landmass of modern-day Israel. How this is supposed to prove they were "Zionists", however, I fail to understand.



#4. "Ben Roden wrote several tracts claiming that the establishment of modern Israel and the capture of Jerusalem in '67 were fulfillments of prophecies about the restoration of Judah."



Most "mainstream" Christians believe this as well. That doesn't necessarily make them "Zionists", however. :wink:



#5. "The original Branch Davidian seal also incorporated the Star of David into its seal."



I've already answered this one. See #1.



#6. "After Ben's death Lois made many more trips to Israel and studied under Rabbis there. In many of her worlks on the feminine Holy Spirit she quotes from the Rabbinic writings to support her points."



What is your source on this, Mr. Trimm? It is the first I've ever heard about it.



#7. "In one of her tracts Lois speaks of a future time in which the 'wicked nations' of the world would attack modern Israel."



Once again, this is a widely held belief among "evangelical" and "fundamentalist" Christians. How does it make them "Zionists"?



#8. "Lois took Vernon to Israel and showed him around introducing him to the Rabbis."



This is another new one to me. What was your source for this information, Mr. Trimm?



#9. "In 1985 Vernon and Rache rented an apartment in Israel and lived there for several months. Koresh receives the Koresh Message."



This is true. It proves nothing.



#10. "In 1987 Koresh gives a taped study in which he outlines the Koresh Message. In this message Koresh lays out a future in which the BD's have moved to Israel and befriended the Jews who he predicts will desire to hear his teachings. he predicts that the nations of the world will have a problem with him and that he has a lot of wives and is getting all of these Jewish girls pregnant. The nations move against Jerusalem and the BD's and Jews stand side by side against them and are under siege together."



This ties back into the "place of safety" theory. Again, it *DOES NOT* prove he was a "Zionist".



#11. "Koresh Rock group Seraphim produces God Rock's t-shirts featuring a fiery flying serpent with six wings outstretched as a Star of David."



So?



#12. "In 1990 Koresh (had been Vernon) visits Israel again... again studies with the Rabbis... he attends two Orthodox Rabbinic Yeshivas. On this trip Koresh is befriended by Rabbi Avram Feld... they even become drinking buddies. Koresh looked into land permits seeking to move the BD's to Israel. He frequently goes to Ben Yehudah street and plays Chassidic melodies on his guitar."



What's your source on this? If you can't back it up with some documentation, then I am forced to conclude that you simply made this up yourself. :D



#13. "One of the Branches that died in the fire was a Jewish Israeli citizen."



So?



#14. "Every Davidian/BD flag to fly over Old or New Mt. Carmel featured a Star of David including the banner over the Center during the seige."



See #1.



"David's Beast was a one world conspiracy, was a conspiracy of the "Protestant Nations" with the Whore, the Roman Catholic Church. SDA had always identified the Whore in this way... From the time of Ben Roden the BD's had always taught that the conspiracy they wanted to escape by going to Israel was that of an enforced national Sunday Blue Law. This was ANYTHING but a one world Jewish Conspiracy it was a Gentile Christian conspiracy they hoped to escape by going to Israel were they would share the Saturday Sabbath and the Feasts with the Jews until the day the Protestant nations would come against them."



Mr. Trimm, you yourself admitted, elsewhere on your board that, in 1990, Koresh switched the interpretation of a certain passage in Zechariah from physical Israel to the Davidians at Mt. Carmel. Therefore, all of your above statement is simply irrelevant.



When we examine the reasons for the government's attack on the Davidians, all that we must consider is what the teachings were AT THAT TIME. What Houteff or the Rodens taught way back when is irrelevant. I don't dispute that what you say about those teachings is true. Basically all Adventists believe that the one-world conspiracy concerns an apostacy of the Protestant churches "going back to the Mother Whore", the Roman Catholic Church. However, what Koresh taught was very different, and there is written proof of this.



Dick Reavis pointed out in his book, THE ASHES OF WACO, that, during the last few years of his life, David Koresh read THE SPOTLIGHT. (His sister-in-law subscribed to this publication.) This may, in part, account for his changing of the doctrine from physical Israel to Mt. Carmel. After he found out what a corrupt, racist, Christian-hating regime was in charge over there, he may well have felt that he HAD to change the doctrine in order to maintain his own credibility. :wink:



Branch Davidian insiders are also aware that, prior to his death, Koresh chose Livingstone Fagan as his successor. Recently, Fagan has stated that he believes *ISRAEL*, not the Roman Catholic Church is the "Great Whore" referred to in Revelation. He has also stated that he believes Israel was responsible for 9/11. :)



So you see, Mr. Trimm, that the Branch Davidians were *ANYTHING* but "Zionists". ;)

SatanSlayer72
Acolyte
Posts: 219

David Koresh On Zionism

Post#2 » Thu Mar 20, 2003 4:16 pm

David Koresh on Zionism, 1985:



"So therefore, when they get into the political sector of - of - of politics then they're gonna make laws, and make a religious America. And they're the ones who want to reform the Jews even if it's at gunpoint. They realize the necessity of gaining Israel because they believe that they are a modern Israel. They think that they are fulfilling the prophecies, and Zechariah foretells this in prophecy. They're the ones who have funded the restoration of the Jews in Palestine. You see? America sends millions of dollars yearly to Israel in the name of religion to fund the Jews; because they think that the fleshy Jews are gonna go back and inherit the land."



Male: They think the what?



Koresh: The fleshy Jews.



Male: I don't understand that.



Koresh: The Jews of the flesh who are no better then a gentile. Being in the flesh is not the seed of Abraham. Following the prophecies and believing the spirit of truth, that's the true Israel. Not the fleshy Jews who won't accept Christ.



Male: ...... they're going back to Israel too.



Koresh: Yes. They're going back now.



Male: Huh?



Koresh: Why do you think Christians call it Babylon for? I mean every religion in the world has it's headquarters over there. The Catholics, Episcopalians ...



Male: Isn't that where the Rapture is supposed to take place?



Koresh: Yeah.



Male: So the world ends in Jerusalem?



Koresh: Well no. They - Baptists have several different sections of that doctrine. But what we're stating is that this was - that takes place. America is going to bring the offensive to police up the area, and in so doing overtake countries in Palestine. They're gonna like the taste of blood, and so doing they're gonna finally take Jerusalem of which time this message begins. Only for those who know of it ahead of time. To stand in the day of trouble - the day of trouble eliminates the righteous from the wicked. But God is not gonna judge the world at this time. Remember, Babylon the great comes into existence and the message is come out of her my people. You must be a part of the 144,000 who are with him or otherwise you're lost."

SatanSlayer72
Acolyte
Posts: 219

Livingstone Fagan On "The Great Whore"

Post#3 » Thu Mar 20, 2003 7:05 pm

Livingstone Fagan on "The Great Whore", 2001:



"There is a reason why the above kingdoms, as opposed to others, are noted. It's because of their connection to Jerusalem, depicted as the woman riding the beast in Rev 17: 3-7, 15-18. Consider also Ezekiel 16. She has a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication. The nations are made drunken by her abominations. The reason they do as they are doing. They are not in a sound mind. I'll say more on her abominations in the course of this paper."




"Turning to Rev 17. Contained there is the interpretation of Rev 13. The ten kings (ten horns) are spoken of in verse 12 as receiving no kingdom as yet. At the time this was written (in the latter half of the 1st century AD) although Rome (the 5th head) had fallen out of grace with God by being complicitous with the Jewish authorities in the murder of Christ, it had not yet crumbled into the divided nations of Europe that it was to become. In Rev 13 however, the ten horns are depicted as having crowns upon them giving us some indication we had moved forward in time quite considerably. The last of the European powers to be represented by the ten horns to fall was the Soviet Union. This occurred in the early 1990's and signaled the fall of Europe in terms of its place in this schema. As Europe falls the 7th head moves in to fill the power vacuum. You will note it is said of him in Rev 17: 10, '…and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.' So then, the first beast is not able to retain the power of governance. Thus there must need be some new order lest everything falls into chaos. Permit me to add that chaos arises out of the inevitable failure of these systems devised of man. Which are superimposed unnaturally upon the world and its people."




"With the collapse of the first order depicted by the first beast we turn our attention to the second beast of Rev 13. The Lamb-like beast with two horns that spake as a dragon. This was an interim form of governance between the last beast and the image of the beast that is to follow. I should note here that the sword that wounded the head (5th) of the first beast was the Christ event of 2,000 years ago. Consider Mt 10: 34-39. There is a parallel today. You will note that at the time of the rule of the 7th head (the little horn) he makes war with the saints - Dan 7: 20, 21, 25; Rev 13: 6, 7. If I told you this was what the events of Waco in 1993 were about I wouldn't be lying. But this would provide you with a clue as to who the 7th head or the "little horn" power represented. While we're on the subject, in order for America to come into its own 3 significant powers had to be subdued. These include the British, which occurred as a result of the war of independence. Also the Germans of WWII. Had this battle not been won the present geo-political landscape would have been very different. Thirdly, the Soviet Union. With that said permit me to continue our study of the second beast of Rev 13."




"Now, this beast was spoken of way back in the days of Moses, and in fact alluded to by Jacob before him - Gen 48: 17-20. The two horns of Ephraim and Manasseh, sons of Joseph from his marriage to Asenath the daughter of Potipherah priest of On, while he was in Egypt. In Deut 33, just prior to his death, Moses foretold the future of the children of Israel. Speaking of Ephraim and Manasseh he wrote, '…(Joseph's) horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim and they are the ten thousands of Manasseh…' Deut 33: 17. Although Manasseh is the elder of the two sons Ephraim was to be the greater. So it was the Brits were before the Americans but the Americans greater. Coming out of World War II, the Americans and the Brits deemed themselves the principle victors of that war. By an alliance forged in war, and though at times tentative, as the two horns on the Lamb-like beast they were to spearhead the formation of the image of the beast. What was once the league of nations would become the uniting of the nations for world peace following WWII."




"But, true peace is not brought about through the implements of war. It's a condition of the spirit and soul brought about through the indwelling of the Spirit of God. Not to be substituted for by some religio-political image devised of men and enforced with guns. Significantly it is said of the Lamb-like beast, it speaks as a dragon. In Rev 13: 13, 14, '…He doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, and deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do…' Many have interpreted this fire to refer to television. How they came to this conclusion is beyond me. In truth it refers to the nuclear bombs that were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August of 1945 bringing an end to WWII. Since that time the threat of nuclear annihilation has loomed as a dark cloud over the world and used to force the world into the creation of the United Nations in a false notion of securing world peace. In effect the world has been held hostage at nuclear gunpoint. Daniel 8: 24, 25, speaks of this saying, '…And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand…and by peace (he) shall destroy many…' Note further, '…he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes, but he shall be broken without hand…' Compare Dan 2: 34, 35: 7: 8, 24-26. In Daniel 11: 29-45, he is depicted as the 'king of the north.'"




"Significantly I mentioned earlier that the 2-horned Lamb-like beast comes out of Joseph. Ephraim and Manasseh. So too does the stone! Consider Gen 49: 24, '…From thence (Joseph) is the shepherd, the stone of Israel…' The stone that is cut out without hand, which smote the image on its feet of Dan 2: 34, 35, 45. Which then grows into a great mountain and fills the whole earth. The same stone with seven eyes of Zechariah 3: 9. The seven eyes of Rev 5: 6, which are the seven spirits of God, sent forth into all the earth. Possessed by the true Lamb, to whom the book sealed with seven seals was given. The young man of Zech 2: 1-4, who goes to Jerusalem in 1985 where he is met by the angel of the LORD. The one who God raises up out of the north, and calls upon the name of God from the rising of the sun - the east, Isa 41: 25. The carcass of Mt 24: 28, around which the eagles are gathered. Yes, this same David Koresh."




"This brings us now to the third entity of Rev 13. The image of the beast. You will appreciate that the Lamb-like beast gives the power over to the image of the beast. The image of the beast is thereby set as the governance over the world. All who dwell on the earth are forcibly made to worship it at the pain of death."




"You will further appreciate that the act of worship is normally associated with matters religious. And certainly not to be required of us by non-ecclesiastical authorities. Here in America we speak of the separation of church and state. In forcing this worship upon the world the perpetrators of this mischief seek to create a world religio-political power similar in form to that of Roman Catholicism of the dark ages. A world theocracy of sorts, based in the convergence of all religions. Naturally giving precedence to the major ones. A determination arrived at based on numbers. Simple democracy. A concept that has no place in deciding matters of God and of truth. I'm reminded here of the words of Caiaphas, 2,000 years ago in their plotting against Christ, '…It is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not…' It didn't matter that Christ was true, and the sent of God. And that what they were doing was evil. Democracy was here used as the rationale to assuage their guilty conscience in their efforts to murder the innocent. Nevertheless, a similar course is here being pursued. The perpetrators of this mischief set themselves as God, who they know not, seeking to force the world to bow down to an image of their own making. Our accepting of this leads us into the breaking of the 2nd commandment on a worldwide scale. Thus the world is made to defile itself in a thing of evil. The 2nd commandment states, '…Thou shall not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: For I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generations of them that hate me, and showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments…' Ex 20: 4-6."





"There have been several interpretations offered concerning who or what is represented by this woman. Prominent among these has been that of the Papacy and Roman Catholicism. This was not what David Koresh showed. In fact while not agreeing with the theological stance of Roman Catholicism he had some good words to say of the sincere efforts made by many among the Catholics to ease the woe of human suffering. You will further recall in Part I, we made reference to the 5th head being that of Rome. Moreover, the image of the beast is a religio-political order of governance fashioned after Rome. You will remember that a compromised form of Christianity became adopted as the religion of the Roman state in an effort to hold the crumbling empire together. It prevailed as Roman Catholicism through the dark ages in a theocratic form of governance."




"There are those who in support of their view of the woman being the Papacy refer to the 7 mountains of Rev 17: 9, as 7 literal mountains upon which Vatican City rests."





"'And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, come hither, I will show unto thee the judgement of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters. With whom the kings of the earth hath committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. And the angel said unto me, wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman. And he saith unto me, the waters, which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.' Rev 17: 1-7, 15, 16, 18."




"The identity of the woman was spoken of long before the text was written concerning her. She was particularly brought to view through the prophet Ezekiel. In Ezekiel 16: 2, it is written of her, '…Son of man causes Jerusalem to know her abominations.' In the verses that follow, through to verse 14, it is shown how Jerusalem and the Jewish people were favored of God and came to renown by reason thereof. In Part II, I noted Christ's words of endearment towards Jerusalem just prior to his murder, orchestrated by the Jewish religious authorities, '…O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not.' Concerning her killing of the prophets and stoning them that were sent unto her, you will recall the words of Rev 17: 6, '…And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus…' Compare also .Rev 18: 24."




'In Ezekiel 16:15, God continues further, '…But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playest the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.' There's a striking similarity here to what is said of Lucifer in Ezekiel 28: 12-19. In verse 17, it is written of Lucifer, '…Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.' Compare also Isaiah 14: 12-22; Rev 12: 7-17."




"Turning again to Ezekiel 16. Verses 16-21 picks up the accounting of Jerusalem's harlotry and fornication. In verse 22, God speaks saying, '…And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood.' "




"In the interest of brevity note the following highlights and comparisons to the woman of Rev 17; the "eminent place" of Ezekiel 16: 24. The magnificent temple that Solomon built which was destroyed by the Babylonians on account of Israel's apostasy. It was subsequently rebuilt and destroyed in AD 70 by the Romans, in divine retribution for the murder of Christ. In Mt 24: 1,2, Christ had spoken of this 2nd destruction. You will recall his statement '…There shall not be left here one stone upon another that shall not be thrown down…' As you know, part of the temple wall remains, known today as the 'wailing' wall. Christ's words were not completely fulfilled in the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem. Getting ahead of myself, in Ezekiel 21: 27, the destructions of Jerusalem were foretold, '…overturn, overturn, overturn…' 3 times. There is to be a 3rd destruction of Jerusalem. The signs of which are visible even as we speak, with the rising tensions in the Middle East. This destruction is what is referred to in Rev 17: 16, '…And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.' Compare also Ezekiel 16: 37-39, '…I will gather all thy lovers…I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them…And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place…' In verse 41, '…And they shall burn thine houses with fire.' This is also the focus of Zech 14, and elsewhere. At this 3rd destruction of Jerusalem, the words of Christ that, '…There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down…' will meet their complete fulfillment."




"Concerning Jerusalem's whoredoms God is very explicit. In verse 25 and 26, '…Thou…hast opened thy feet to everyone that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms. Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbors, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger.' The following verses through to verse 34, detail this further."




"In verse 36, and following, the judgement against her on account of her abominations are brought to view, '…Thus saith the Lord God; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children…Behold therefore, I will gather all thy lovers…I will even gather them round about against thee…And I will also give thee into their hand…' We've already noted her pending destruction, for the 3rd and final time. In Zech 14: 1, 2, it is corroborated thus, ;'…Behold, the day of the Lord cometh…I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle…' "




"On the matters of Jerusalem being burned with fire as noted in Rev 17: 16, Ezekiel 28: 18, regarding Lucifer. God speaks of bringing forth a fire from the midst of him that shall devour him and bring him to ashes upon the earth. In bringing this about Satan is to have a visible presence. This is in connection with the woman of Rev 17. Consider 2 Thessolonians 2: 1-12."




"Whilst the woman of Rev 17 is Jerusalem, a.k.a. Babylon, there is also the king of Babylon. At present the U.S.A. is her lover. The one in bed with her. The young kid on the block mesmerized by her charms. I mentioned him as the 'little horn' power of Daniel 7. America is the king of Babylon, a.k.a. the king of the north, spoken of in Daniel 11. He does not yet know her treachery and the fact that she is just using him for all she can get. He's being screwed, while thinking he's in love. Deceived, by the false religious teachers in his midst. In his manifestation he refuses to learn what God and those other nations already know. She's a whore! Evidently, the penny does drop, and he wakes up. In his fury at being made a spectacle of before the world, he goes against her as Daniel 11: 44 and 45 state. But he's to be punished too. It takes two to tango. Not to mention what America did at Waco regarding the matters concerning David Koresh. This will become apparent. Then it will be known, the significance of who David Koresh really is. And what it was America's privilege to know. But instead it was found in bed with the whore!"





"The root of this effort has its basis in an idea that did in fact originate with God. And would only be of substance so long as God was indeed in it. It had to do with God's purpose in saving the world. Through Israel the seed of Abraham, God intended to bring his blessing of salvation to mankind. They were to be his peculiar people, his royal priesthood, bringing the good news to the rest of us. As we shall see, Jerusalem was to play a central role in this. This plan would have worked had not Israel defaulted. But instead of following through, and despite God's repeated efforts, Israel corrupted itself. By exalting itself it separated from God. They lost sight of the fact that they too, as the rest of mankind, were in need of salvation. Their being chosen to this privileged calling was not on account of any quality within themselves above the rest of mankind. But rather, that the purposes of God might be accomplished in the saving of the world. Self-righteous pride took the place of humility blossoming to where they would see themselves not only as being above the rest of mankind but above the very God that brought them to renown also. The rejection and murder of Christ 2,000 years ago was a significant turning point. Yet the mercy of God still lingered, out of compassion for the rest of the world."





"Nevertheless, having separated itself from God, Israel became void of substance. Yet they kept the idea of a worldwide priesthood. But in the now corrupted form of world dominion. Instead of service to mankind bringing the good news, acting under the now hollow notion of being God's peculiar people, they would subtly advance themselves as the power in the earth. In Daniel 11: 14, the angel who met Daniel back in chapter 10, spoke of how the "Robbers" of Daniel's people (the money men among the Jews) would exalt themselves to "establish the vision." Revelation 18; speaks of the fall of Babylon (the woman). Verse 23, notes that the "merchants" were the great men of the earth. Daniel went on to say that despite their efforts to establish the vision of world dominion, they would fall."




"I mentioned that Israel became void of substance as it separated from God. This state of void has thrown up many unholy offerings in their efforts to cover their nakedness from the gaze of the rest of the world. This goes right back to the rejection and murder of Christ 2,000 years ago. You will recall Caiaphas' speech during their plotting to murder Christ, 'It is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people and that the whole nation perish not.' This notion has been modified and adopted as a central tenet of Christianity, placing it under the shadow of the Jews and not under Christ. I had already noted how a compromised form of 'Christianity' was adopted as the religion of the Roman state in an effort to hold the crumbling empire together. Nevertheless, this modified form of Caiaphas' words would give expression to itself in the chant "Christ came to die for our sins." Nothing can be further from the truth. He was murdered. This is how the early believers saw and spoke it. They were persecuted for voicing this. You will recall the stoning of Stephen for boldly proclaiming this, Acts 7: 51-60. Christ was murdered by unscrupulous men posing under the cover of religion. The true purpose of his coming I've already shown in connection with Isa 49: 5 & 6. It was to gather the very people who orchestrated his murder and thus effect the salvation of the world. The fact that Christ suffered himself to be so cruelly treated and appealed to the father to, "…forgive them for they know not what they do," does not change the fact that this was an unconscionable act of murder. The failure of the perpetrators of this act to wise up to this truth, and that 'Christianity' would condone this, makes Christ's forgiveness of non-effect. The people remain in their sins, while oblivious to the fact and despite the mention of Christ's name, only to discover this to be true when it is too late. These people have been playing games with our souls. The judgement against them remains and is to be executed in the coming destruction of Jerusalem."




"Other such unholy offerings (abominations) coming out of that void of darkness and unleashed on the world can be seen in the various areas of human endeavor. I made mention of Einstein and the nuclear bomb. This has been presented as if it was doing the world a favor! You're familiar with "thinkers" like Freud. Karl Marx, and the like, the Rothschild family of European Jewish bankers. These people have had considerable influence down through the generations in shaping the affairs of the world. But is mankind restored to his immortality through these offerings? Is this the salvation that was in Christ? No. This is the curse. It has to do with establishing that false vision of world dominion, spoken of by Daniel. And is destined to come to nothing. It brings with it, as Daniel goes on to say in chapter 12: 1, "…a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation, even to that same time." Mankind, now being equipped with the means to bring untold suffering to the world and to its peoples, brought about through these falsehoods."




"The significance of Jerusalem in all of this is paramount. Isa 34: 8, speaks of the controversy of Zion. God chose Jerusalem (the place of peace) as his dwelling place. There on the east of Jerusalem, the Mt. of Olives, he intends to place his kingdom as the prophets foretold. The plan of salvation involves God setting up his headquarters here on earth. From which the universe is to be governed. He is to manifest himself among us. This is a wonderful thought. Can you imagine going up to the Lord God and talking with him as you would another person? Or perhaps drinking a beer or playing ball with him? It was God's intent that it would be so. But first, Jerusalem must be severed of her filth, hence the pending destruction."




"You should also consider that having severed itself from God what right has Israel to Jerusalem above any other? Their having a place there was conditioned on faithfulness to God. This they have defaulted on. You will recall the former inhabitants of that region, the Canaanites, were removed for their ungodliness. God has on numerous occasions in the history of Israel, on account of their stiffneckedness, shown he is no respecter of persons. It is time we got out from under this dark shadow."




Livingstone Fagan on "anti-Semitism": "The capitulation of Christianity is seen for example when we look at the question concerning whether or not the Jews murdered Christ. With this false notion that God sent his son to die, several Christian denominations have formally denounced the claim that the Jews murdered Christ. In 1965, the second Vatican Council issued the Nostra Autate statement which declared that, 'What happened in His (Jesus) passion cannot be charged against all the Jews without distinction, then alive, nor against the Jews today.' A most cleverly crafted evasion of the issue. In 1964, the General Convention of the Episcopal Church declared, 'We regret the charge of deicide against the Jews and condemn anti-Semitism.' The Evangelical Lutheran Church and the Alliance of Baptist have issued statements regretting, '...interpreting our sacred writings in such a way that we have created enemies of the Jewish people.' These statements fall short of how the early believers viewed the killing of Christ. One perfect example is that concerning the stoning of Stephen noted in Acts 7:51-60. In verse 52 Stephen distinctly pointed to the Jewish leaders as having murdered Christ. In his boldness, under the power of the Holy Ghost, he too was to be murdered by the Jews. The apostle Paul echoed similar sentiments and was likewise persecuted. So too were other believers. Consider Acts 28:17-29; 4:1-22; 5:17-33; 12:1-5, 14:19. We see here something of what the early believers had to say. But what about the living Christ? What does he have to say about it? How are we to know? Perhaps you might consider Rev 2:9; 3:9; 17:6; Isa 1:2-4, 21-23; Luke 20:9-19; John 8:39-47. That same spirit in those of the Jews who murdered Christ is alive today, just as it was back then. It likewise inspires the murder of those who dare to stand for Christ in truth as it did Christ himself. Those who can't see this are blinded by their own corruption. They are part of it."




"In response to the clear testimony of the scriptures concerning the killing of Christ, the charge of anti-Semitism or the questioning of the accuracy of the scriptures itself is offered as rebuttal. By acceding to this for fear of offending the Jews, coupled with the false notion that God sent his son into the world to die, Christianity has compromised itself."

pokerkid
Site Admin
Posts: 7781

Charlie...

Post#4 » Thu Mar 20, 2003 8:08 pm

I moved this piece here because it is more on topic in the religion/spiritual section of the forum then on the conspiracies against freedom..

As for wanting to debate or get into any discussions with this dude...

I HAVE NO TIME. The dude is lost, selling crap, and my time is better spent focuse on what I am presently doing.

Best dam advice i ever heard is 'Dont argue with satan". Its pointless, and making any time for this person, is wasting good time and energy on someone YOU WILL NEVER GET THRU.
peace
pk

SatanSlayer72
Acolyte
Posts: 219

Thread Relocation

Post#5 » Mon Mar 24, 2003 4:29 pm

Well, I can't say as I blame you for not wanting to argue with a Yidiot. :wink:



However, here you have a guy who is willfully and knowingly deceiving people, and I can't help but think something ought to be done about it. :( The people who see the garbage he puts out, a lot of them don't really have any point of reference, and they're falling for his shit, hook, line, and sinker. :x And that's just not right.



So...I'm gonna try to post to his board about this, and, if he just deletes it and bans me, well...hopefully, you'll be decent enough about it not to say "I told you so." :wink: Also, I intend to alert Sharlene (Shapport) about this, and also Ron Cole, the guys who run the official Mt. Carmel website, and anyone else I can think of. They need to be aware of what this bastard is trying to do.



As for you're moving this thread, while I can KINDA see what you were getting at, I can't help but thinking it was better off where it was. I can only define this as a "Conspiracy Against Our Freedom", even if it does involve somewhat esoteric religious doctrines. It's about disinformation being disseminated, and that amounts to a conspiracy against the movement. Grant it, maybe if you had a section on here called "Disinformation" or "Traitors In Our Midst"...something like that, that would be even more appropriate.

WallflowerGal
Acolyte
Posts: 60

Mount Carmel

Post#6 » Fri Mar 28, 2003 12:29 am

I do want to say that it is MHO that the so called "Star of David" is in no way Biblical.

As for trying to reach this dude...... you can try but even a taxi cab driver in New York City can try.

Also, do you think the followers of Koresh were of Christian Israel?

Some where amoungst all the video tapes I have hours of the siege after it began to burn on tape. Including (i believe) a report that said the ATF had called into a burn center that morning requesting information on how many people they could see if need be. I can't lay my hands on it right now but I did have it a few years back. Anyone else recall that?

God bless

SatanSlayer72
Acolyte
Posts: 219

Davidian Doctrine

Post#7 » Tue Apr 01, 2003 12:53 pm

I agree with you about the so-called "Star Of David". It is definitely *NOT* Biblical. It is an occultic symbol, which, according to Fritz Springmeier, in his book, BLOODLINES OF THE ILLUMINATI, was only adopted by the Jewish people a few hundred years ago.



But...that's beside the point. :wink: The point is that this clown is trying to say that the Davidians were Zionist, based on the fact that they used the "Star Of David" as their symbol. But the symbol's association with Zionism is a purely recent invention, only dating back to the late nineteenth or early twentieth century. Before that, it was primarily used by Freemasons, Rosicrucians, and other occultic types.



I disagree with a lot of the Davidian doctrine, and, based on the tapes that I have, I tend to think that Koresh was probably either demon-possessed or demonically controlled to some extent or other. (Of course, this is based on study tapes that he made back in the early to mid-80's, and he changed his doctrine around so many times that, by the time of the siege, he may not have even believed some of those things anymore. They are certainly disturbing, though, to say the least. :shock: :( )



They certainly weren't "Christian Identity" in the usual sense of the term, since there were members of all races and ethnicities, even one Jewish guy from Brazil. (Not sure whether Trimm's desription of him as being an "Israeli citizen" is accurate or not. I'll have to go back and check it out. I do know that his mother claims to be a "Holocaust survivor". :roll: At any rate, I am *NOT* willing to give this guy the benefit of the doubt.) But, at the end, they believed that THEY and ONLY they were "True Israel", the "Israel" referred to in End Times prophecy.



Nonetheless, as I have shown elsewhere on this thread, they were *ANYTHING* but Zionists, and I think their decidedly ANTI-ZIONIST stance was one of the reasons the Feds decided to murder them. :x

WallflowerGal
Acolyte
Posts: 60

hmmmm

Post#8 » Thu Apr 03, 2003 9:22 pm

Interesting point.

It has been my understanding that the 6 pointed star was the star of molech (sp). Which we can read about in the Bible.

Enjoy your posts.

God bless

SatanSlayer72
Acolyte
Posts: 219

Here's What He's Up To......

Post#9 » Thu May 01, 2003 12:21 pm

Well, after almost a month of watching Trimm's Branch Theology discussion board, it appears that he has finally showed his hand.



Some of you may have heard of groups like the Assemblage of Yahweh and the House of Yahweh, as well as the various "Sacred Name" groups that seem to be sprouting up here and there. These Identity groups make much of the name "YHWH", and have even gone as far as printing up Bibles substituting the name "YHWH" for "Jesus", "Jehovah", "Adonai", etc. Of course, these groups are of the Identity persuasion, and, although they take the keeping of Old Testament law to a rather ridiculous, albeit somewhat amusing extreme, in my opinion, (in terms of insisting that all the men have full beards, etc.) these groups, being of the Christian Identity persuasion, are pro-Western and anti-Zionist. They are definitely *NOT* trying to convert Christians to Judaism, or some bizarre variant of that "religion".



This, however, cannot be said for the Chabad Lubavitch, a radical Hasidic sect whose stated purpose is to wipe all traces of Christianity from off the face of the earth. :shock: :x (For more information on this group, go to www.public-action.com/christmas.html . This document contains links to their actual website, where you can read for yourself of their plans.) Their intention is to force all Christians to become what they call "Hasidic Gentiles", a designation created to distinguish the CONQUERED (the Gentile peoples of the world, forced by law to observe the dictates of the Jewish pseudo-religion) from the CONQUERORS (the ethnically pure, full-blooded Jews). :x



How does Trimm fit into the picture? He is currently offering, for a rather hefty price, of course, :roll: "Hebrew Bibles", which he has had printed up, which totally PERVERT and CORRUPT the meaning of the New Testament, substituting the word "Messiah" for "Jesus Christ" and the word "assemblage" for "Church"!!! :shock: :x



Here is his latest post:




Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:13:21 -0500
From: James Trimm <jstrimm@nazarene.net>
Subject: HRV Bible Coming Soon


A MESSAGE FROM THE MODERATOR:

THE HRV (HEBRAIC-ROOTS VERSION) COMPLETE BIBLE IS COMING SOON!!!!!!!!

REQUEST YOUR COPY TODAY!!!!


* The HRV translation of the New Testament is translated out of the
ORIGINAL HEBREW AND ARAMAIC and is taken from ancient Hebrew and Aramaic
Manuscripts NOT THE GREEK.

* The HRV is a SACRED NAME EDITION - Unlike the Sacred Name editions based
on Greek NT manuscripts, the HRV places the Sacred Name in the NT based on
actual manuscript evidence in the Hebrew and Aramaic Manuscripts. In the
Tanak portion the 134 places where the Massorah admits that the Masorites
replaced YHWH with Adonai are restored to YHWH and footnoted to indicate
this fact and to cite any other manuscript evidence for a reading of "YHWH"
in these passages.

* The HRV is a MESSIANIC EDITION - The HRV uses Messianic terms like
"Messiah" (rather than "Christ") and "assembly" (rather than "church") etc.
as well as Hebraic names like "Moshe" (Moses), "Avraham" (Abraham).

* The HRV restores the ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT ORDER of the books of the Bible
- The HRV restores the original manuscript order of the books of the Tanak
("Old Testament"). Also, unlike other Messianic and Sacred name editions
the HRV restores the original manuscript order of the books of the "New
Testament" (by placing the "Jewish Epistles" (Ya'akov/James thru
Y'hudah/Jude)) FIRST and then following them by the Pauline Epistles as in
the original manuscript order.

* The HRV reaches back to THE ORIGINAL TEXT of both the Tanak ("Old
Testament") and the "New Testament" - The HRV reaches back to the original
text of the "New Testament" by using the Hebrew and Aramaic manuscripts
rather than the Greek. The HRV reaches back to the original text of the
Tanak by making use not only of the Masoretic Text, but of the Massorah,
the Aramaic Peshitta Tanak, the Hebrew Samaritan Pentateuch, the Greek
Septuagint and the Dead Sea Scrolls.



If you have not already requested a copy of the HRV Complete Bible (for a
minimum donation of $56 including shipping)
you may want to get your request in now as THIS PRE-PUBLICATION OFFER WILL
BE ENDING SOON and the minimum donation will then go up to $75 including
shipping. (Pre-publication requests will be shipped upon publication.).

You can obtain your copy minimum donation of $50.00 plus $6.00 Shipping &
handling (in the USA); $10.00 in Canada and Mexico and $15.00
overseas. (Items are sent out as appreciation gifts for your donations)

SANJ can now take credit cards through phone in orders: 817-284-7039 or you
can mail it in as well:
(you can also order over the internet using Pay Pal, see info further down
in this email)

SANJ
PO Box 471
Hurst, Texas 76053

Send the following information:

Name on card:
Card Type:
Card Number:
Expiration Date:
Phone Number:
Billing Address:
Shipping Address if different from Billing:
Email Address:
The quantity of the items you want.

Be sure to note what item(s) you are requesting.

Or you can still send in a check or money order to the above
address. Please note that all checks have a two-week holding period.
(International checks three weeks).

We also still accept Paypal orders as well. http://www.paypal.com

PLEASE view our shipping and payment policies:

http://www.nazarene.net/shipping_and_pa ... mation.htm

IF you send along your email address we can send you a shipping confirmation.

If you have any questions concerning donations or item requests please
contact the following:

donations@nazarene.net

For questions about the books, other then donation amount, please contact
the following:

sanj@nazarene.net

James Trimm








________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2003 10:13:41 -0500
From: James Trimm <jstrimm@nazarene.net>
Subject: Restoring Original Hebrew/Aramaic NT


A MESSAGE FROM THE MODERATOR:

The HRV "New Testament" text is taken from ancient Hebrew and Aramaic
manuscripts.

(Shem Tob, DuTillet and Muster Hebrew Matthew; Munster Hebrew Hebrews; The
Old Syriac Aramaic Gospels; The Aramaic Peshitta NT; Munster Hebrew Hebrews
and the Crawford Aramaic Revelation.)

Unlike most translations this edition is not rooted in a Greek Hellenistic
text. Instead this translation seeks to understand the text of the New
Testament from the languages in which it was originally written. This is
important because there are some passages in the NT which do not make sense
at all in Greek, but only begin to make sense when we look at them in
Hebrew and Aramaic:


Acts 11:27-30

And in these days prophets came from Jerusalem to Antioch. Then one of
them, named Agabus, stood up and showed by the Spirit that there was going
to be a great famine throughout all THE WORLD, which also happened in the
days of Claudius Caesar. Then the talmidim, each according to his ability,
determined to send relief to the brothers dwelling IN JUDEA. This they also
did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.


Now this doesn't make sense at all, why would those in Antioch send relief
to those dwelling IN JUDEA if the famine was to strike all THE WORLD. They
would be facing famine themselves. The solution lies in the fact that the
word for "WORLD" in the Aramaic manuscripts is 'ERA (Strong's #772) the
Aramaic form of the Hebrew word ERETZ (Strong's 776). This word can mean
"world" (as in Prov. 19:4) "earth" (as in Dan. 2:35) or "land" (as in Dan.
9:15) and is often used as a euphemism for "The Land of Israel" (as in Dan.
9:6). Certainly the word here is not meant to mean "world" but "land of
Israel."


Mt. 26:9 = Mk. 14:3

"And when Y'shua was in Bethany at the house of Simon the leper,..."

As any Bible student knows, lepers were not permitted to live in the city
(see Lev. 13:46). Since ancient Hebrew and Aramaic were written without
vowels, there was no distinction between the Aramaic words GAR'BA (leper)
and GARABA (jar maker or jar merchant). Since in this story a woman pours
oil from a jar it is apparent that Simon was a jar merchant or jar maker
and not a leper.


Mt. 19:12 & Acts 8:26f

....there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the
Kingdom of Heaven's sake....
--Mt. 19:12 NKJV

So he [Phillip] arose and went. And behold, a man of Ethiopia, a
eunuch of great authority under Candace the queen of the Ethiopians,
who had charge of all her treasury, and had come to Jerusalem to
worship.
--Acts 8:27 NKJV

The man in Acts 8:27 appears to be a proselyte to Judaism since he seems to
be making the Torah-required pilgrimage to Jerusalem (Dt. 16:16). The
Torah, however, forbids a eunuch both from becoming a proselyte Jew, and
from worshiping at the Temple (Dt. 23:1f). This also raises the question of
why one would become a eunuch (be castrated) for the sake of the Kingdom of
Heaven. After all eunuchs are excluded from the assembly of Israel. The
word for "eunuch" in the Aramaic manuscripts of both of theses passages is
M'HAIMNA which can mean "eunuch" but can also mean "believer" or "faithful
one" as it clearly means here.


Mt. 19:24 = Mk. 10:25 = Lk. 18:25

...it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle
than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.

The word for "camel" in the Aramaic manuscripts is GAMLA which can mean
"camel" but can also refer to a "large rope," which is certainly the
meaning here.

Jn. 12:11 & 15:16

One word that the Greek translators often misunderstood was the Aramaic
word 'EZAL which normally means "to go" or "to depart" but is used
idiomatically in Aramaic to mean that some action goes forward and that
something progresses "more and more".

One case where the Greek translator misunderstood this word and translated
to literally is in Jn. 12:11:

Because that by reason of him many of the Jews
went away (!?!?!?!?), and believed on Jesus. (KJV)

Now I have translated the Aramaic of this passage as follows:

because many of the Judeans, on account of him,
were trusting more and more ('EZAL) in Yeshua.

And Jn. 15:16:

...that ye should go and bring forth fruit...
KJV

I have translated from the Aramaic:

...that you also should bear fruit more and more ('EZAL)...



The HRV "New Testament" text is taken from ancient Hebrew and Aramaic
manuscripts. (Shem Tob, DuTillet and Muster Hebrew Matthew; Munster Hebrew
Hebrews; The Old Syriac Aramaic Gospels; The Aramaic Peshitta NT and the
Crawford Aramaic Revelation.) and has over 1,700 footnotes.



If you have not already requested a copy of the HRV Complete Bible (for a
minimum donation of $56 including shipping)
you may want to get your request in now as THIS PRE-PUBLICATION OFFER WILL
BE ENDING SOON and the minimum donation will then go up to $75 including
shipping. (Pre-publication requests will be shipped upon publication.).

You can obtain your copy minimum donation of $50.00 plus $6.00 Shipping &
handling (in the USA); $10.00 in Canada and Mexico and $15.00
overseas. (Items are sent out as appreciation gifts for your donations)

SANJ can now take credit cards through phone in orders: 817-284-7039 or you
can mail it in as well:
(you can also order over the internet using Pay Pal, see info further down
in this email)

SANJ
PO Box 471
Hurst, Texas 76053

Send the following information:

Name on card:
Card Type:
Card Number:
Expiration Date:
Phone Number:
Billing Address:
Shipping Address if different from Billing:
Email Address:
The quantity of the items you want.

Be sure to note what item(s) you are requesting.

Or you can still send in a check or money order to the above
address. Please note that all checks have a two-week holding period.
(International checks three weeks).

We also still accept Paypal orders as well. http://www.paypal.com

PLEASE view our shipping and payment policies:

http://www.nazarene.net/shipping_and_pa ... mation.htm

IF you send along your email address we can send you a shipping confirmation.

If you have any questions concerning donations or item requests please
contact the following:

donations@nazarene.net

For questions about the books, other then donation amount, please contact
the following:

sanj@nazarene.net

James Trimm








________________________________________________________________________
_____________________________________________________________________



Note, in particular the following passage:



"Mt. 19:24 = Mk. 10:25 = Lk. 18:25

...it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle
than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.

The word for 'camel' in the Aramaic manuscripts is GAMLA which can mean
'camel' but can also refer to a 'large rope,' which is certainly the
meaning here." (Very convenient, huh? :roll: )



Interesting, too, that this "Hebrew Bible" differentiates between "Jews" and "Judaeans". Any Jewish scholar would tell you, if you were to inject him with a truth serum, that is, that Christ and his disciples were *NOT* "Jews", the Jews being the priestly caste of Pharisees and Sadducees (sp?) who rejected Jesus outright. Note this passage:



"One case where the Greek translator misunderstood this word and translated
to literally is in Jn. 12:11:

Because that by reason of him many of the Jews
went away (!?!?!?!?), and believed on Jesus. (KJV)

Now I have translated the Aramaic of this passage as follows:

because many of the JUDEANS, (emphasis added) on account of him,
were trusting more and more ('EZAL) in Yeshua. ("Hebrew" version)"



It is now obvious to me that Mr. Trimm's whole purpose of starting up his PHONY "Branch Davidian discussion board" was to try to convert gullible and disaffected Christians to Judaism. :x

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest