Stegosaur in Cambodia?

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PokerBass
Acolyte
Posts: 437

Stegosaur in Cambodia?

Post#1 » Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:38 am

Even though there's no Christian reference in this article, I figured I'd post it here since the research into co-existence of man and dinosaurs is primarily in the Christian Science community.

http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-ne ... -cambodia/


Stegosaur in Cambodia?

What real evidence exists for dinosaurs having survived into more contemporary times? What are we to make of the carving of a Stegosaur (Stegosaur stenops) on an ancient Cambodian temple at Angkor Wat?



Click image for full-size version



This carving is now being shown to tourists, proclaiming it is a dinosaur. Such a situation, thusfar, has only caused a few comments online, at such locations as the Unexplained Earth webpage last summer, as well as other sites.

But all this appears to be changing, with more and more attention to this item. For example, there is new talk of this on the Interactive Bible site, giving this background to the location:

The magnificent jungle temples of Cambodia were produced by the Khmer civilization, beginning as early as the eighth and extending through the fourteenth century A.D. One of, if not the greatest monarchs and monument builders of this empire was Jayavarman VII, crowned supreme king in 1181. Portrait statues, depicting him meditating in the fashion of Buddha, have been found throughout the region. An excellent example can be seen in the National Museum Of Cambodia in Phnom Pehn. He built the beautiful temple monastery Ta Prohm in honor of his mother, dedicating it in 1186.

These awesome temples were rediscovered by Portuguese adventurers and Catholic missionaries in the 16th century and many were restored in 19th and 20th centuries. Ta Prohm, one of the most picturesque, was left in its natural state. It recently gained international attention as the setting for the first Laura Croft movie.

It has been on Ta Prohm, which abounds with carvings of all sorts of local animals, where a carving of a Stegosaur has been discovered.



Click image for full-size version

How could this have happened?

Did the prop crew of the Laura Croft movie pull off a prank, and restore the temple, placing onto this wall a dinosaur facade? If you will note, on the photos, the panel seems to be of a lighter shade of gray. Is this due to it being kept cleaner for tourists, or because this is a newly added panel?

Perhaps it is nothing more than a rhinoceros? There is speculation that at one time or another Cambodia had Indian, Javan, and Sumatran rhinos living in the country.

Or have Stegosaurs roamed Cambodia, less than 1000 years ago and Angkor’s master artists created a representation of one, on a temple?

How certain religious groups may wish to use this material to promote their belief systems is of no concern to me, as long as what they are pointing out is precise and without fakery. In this case, I am sincerely interested in securing tangible, scientific evidence via cultural artifacts of the rather unbelievable thought of dinosaur survival, if it exists. If it is a hoax, I want to pursue that to that end result, too.



Click image for full-size version

What do you think?


18 Comments »

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18 Comments to “Stegosaur in Cambodia?”
EdwardHowland Says:
February 5th, 2006 at 4:05 pm
Since this seems to be the first and as far as I know only reference to stegosaurs in Cambodia my first guess would be hoax. Further evidence may yet turn up however. We shall see…

Gil Says:
February 5th, 2006 at 4:36 pm
This carving looks to me like an Borneo Rhinocerous against a big-leafed backdrop. The rhino was on the mainland in historic times.

Firstly, the head is big and heavy, and shows the same kind of horn that they have.
Secondly, the tail is short and stubby. The stegosaur had large spikes on it - one would well imagine that being especially important to a stone carver.

Both characteristics make the Stegosaurus identification spurious at best. The only thing speaking for the ID as a stegosaur is that it does look a bit like the claymation stegosaur in the first King Kong film of 1933.

Syndicate Says:
February 5th, 2006 at 7:37 pm
My first question would be what paleontological evidence is there for Stegosaur stenops having once existed in Cambodia and surrounding regions, and if it did, is it possible that the ancient Khmers had seen fossilized remains?

RBerning Says:
February 5th, 2006 at 7:54 pm
From looking at the picture closer I belive Gil is correct and the plates above the back were vandalized and broken to look as they are at present. The out edges look as if someone took a rock hammer and picked them to present condition.
The key would be if there is a older photo than may show it otherwise.

Gurpreet Says:
February 5th, 2006 at 9:16 pm
The head does look much like a rhino’s to me, albeit a hornless one, such as the Sumatran rhinoceros, which I understand has a very small horn. However, the tail looks much more like that of a stegosaur or other saurischian (the lizard-hipped dinosaurs) than that of any mammal. It would be great to get a carbon dating of that panel; it does look lighter than some of the surrounding stonework.

CryptoInformant Says:
February 5th, 2006 at 10:35 pm
I’m afraid this is something other than a stegosaur, or at least one as we know it. If it is a stegosaur, then it would b descended from Toujiangosaurus, which was far more slender than its American cousin, and had shoulder spikes, but it could have evolved over time, after all it did have 145 million years to do so!

Scarfe Says:
February 6th, 2006 at 12:31 am
The problem with this situation is because of the availability heuristic, which occurs when people estimate the probability of an outcome based on how easy that outcome is to imagine. Because we as North Americans have in our minds what a stegosaurus must look like, especially when stripped down to the sparsest system of signs (visual cues), we can easily interpret that image as a dinosaur; however, who knows what the people who carved those images possessed as a frame of reference or system of symbolic representations. When Herodotus, the Greek Historian, observed a Hippopotamus, an unknown animal to him, he could only describe it insofar as it was like or unlike a horse because his frame of symbolic reference was culturally contingent on what was available to him (a horse). What is the creature depicted at the bottom of the column? It looks unlike any creature to me – perhaps a monkey, but I only think that because it has arms and legs in a very roughly humanoid fashion. The stylized aspect of the face is foreign to me, but it must have had some cultural/mythic/symbolic context for the person who carved it. Who knows what these people would emphasize and schematize in their art. I could be an entirely made up creature with no real basis at all.

fenston s. lo Says:
February 6th, 2006 at 7:28 am
If I had to bet money on it, I would say this is a hoax. If you look carefully at the animal in the picture and regard the tail as a stem, you can see the vestigial traces of leaves flowing out from the right side of the stem onto its back. Moving forward to just back of the front leg there are other vestigial traces of carved design.

Redoubt Says:
February 6th, 2006 at 9:40 am
Thought provoking? Yes. Believable as a representation of a dinosaur? No… not even close.

The physical features are all wrong for a Stegosaurus. They’re not too good for a Triceratops either.

My guess… just from the limited information available, is either that it’s a purposeful hoax or some ancient example of a fanciful imagination.

For a comparative graphic, I removed the critter from its stony setting, highlighted the features of the head and placed representations of what a Stegosaurus and Triceratops probably looked like above and below.

They too are probably subject to errors because no human has ever seen one alive. But they are also likely far closer to fact than the carving in Cambodia…

BIGFE78 Says:
February 6th, 2006 at 10:08 am
THIS IS NOT THE FIRST TEMPLE OR PYRAMID WITH A CARVING OF A DINOSUAR. IF YOU DO SOME RESEARCH ON SOME THE AFRICAN, CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICAN TEMPLES (PYRAMIDS) THEY ALSO HAVE WHAT IS TO BELIEVED AS DINOSAUR CARVINGS, THUNDERBIRDS AND SOME CENTRAL AMERICAN TEMPLES EVEN HAVE CARVINGS OF WHAT LOOKS TO BE SPACECRAFT. OUR WORLD IS A MYSTERY IN IT’S OWN BEING BECAUSE OF LOST KNOWLEDGE AND IGNORANCE TOWARDS EACH OTHER. SUCH AS DESTROY AND CONQUER.

Marlantis Buzz Says:
February 6th, 2006 at 11:40 am
I spent about an hour on it and came up with the following (GooD GoD). Can’t say how old it is or if it’s a fake. If I were to go further above the and below the noted square It gets more interesting in clever way(s) as it should. The decipher indicates…
(Ti it ROYAL GooD GoD…quup).
there are some other letter combinations I’ll not dwell on for now. I wouldn’t dwell on the icon more than face value. It did what it wanted to do and that was get attention being some what outta place. The hidden pattern oddly enough associates with other lands far far away. Thanks, I enjoyed this and will keep it in mind. Buzz

2400bc Says:
February 6th, 2006 at 12:18 pm
I suspect the lighter appearance of the stego carving is due to cleaning.

It seems you can’t win with hardcore skeptics. I’d bet the reason it was cleaned was because some skeptic proposed that the dirt and crud on the carving was hiding/distorting some of the details and that it would prove to be something else when cleaned. When it was cleaned some other skeptic comes along and says it is too clean and that it looks as if it has been manipulated!

Also, skeptics who ridicule people like me who think man & dinosaurs have always coexisted ask where is the evidence - shouldn’t their likeness show-up in artwork by the locals if the locals have encountered them? Then when examples do turn-up the skeptic cries “Forgery” or “Mis-identification” rather than back down from there wrathful, condescending tone of “You are so ignorant for even suggesting such a ridiculous notion!”

All I would like to see from every skeptic who has posted on this article is one thing: Stop moving the goalposts. If you criticize someone and then you turn out to be wrong then back down from you claim rather than grabbing at thin air to hold on to your belief.

Redoubt Says:
February 6th, 2006 at 12:55 pm
Speaking just for myself, I find skepticism a healthy thing. Or sharpened to a finer point… a fish is less likely to end up as dinner if he is not apt to bite on every worm he sees.

I feel that there is a distinct line between something being ‘possible’ and then, being ‘fact’. It is possible that steggy shared a jungle with some ancient Cambodians? Why not? I am not nearly young enough anymore to know everything. But at the same time, I do not feel bound to accept it as truth.

Redoubt’s Captain Spymaster Secret Decoder Mood Ring says… Lighten up, guys.

jjames1 Says:
February 6th, 2006 at 1:14 pm
Marlantis Buzz–exactly what are you talking about? What did you “translate?”

Marlantis Buzz Says:
February 6th, 2006 at 2:10 pm
I’m teaching myself the ancient navigational image code known by many names. I learned the name Divine Grid via reading Sitchen when I was trying to figure out what I had stumbled onto. It involves hidden illusion embedded in this case the stone surface. It’s an ancient universal way to communicate with images to start and later one learns how to find what few letters and numbers there might be. Yes it involves PhotoShop, cut paste overlays in my case, before computers a mirror or film overlays would work. It’s been kept secret from the masses for thousands of years. Most debunkers on this subject are paid to scare you off or they from a wealthy background that thrived from it’s secrets. I’m not into it to expose the past wrong doings. I don’t let debunkers bother me either. As mentioned before…they just keep your replys in tune and quick. The code involves many patterns where a formula(s) is applied to one reveal the hidden image and second, try toread the darn things. If you are left handed, they are easier to work. Right handers have little patients with it. Sometimes on C2C you will hear the term THE OTHER CODE. That is what this is. I don’t usually give up my formulas and seldom challenged for my level of knowing. I do welcome advice from those more experienced at it than I. Even though I’m slightly dyslexic, I use a couple math codes when numerics and letters are clustered in a secondary pi sorta way. First impression people think I’m a grand stander but I’m not. I take this very serious for some cures to health problems are my focus to decipher. This involves ancient mythology and zodiac missing pieces held back from the past.

The dinosaur topic here basically shows a communication wherein, the plates on the back represent the association to other images elsewhere, and can be very old. The animal is afoot showing motion horizontal toward the right. Outside of the circle on the vertical strip is the capital letter A, below is a horizontal S. Here and there are faint faces in halves or quarters. That’s more than enough to get my attention and open it up to see what’s there.

Lego Says:
February 6th, 2006 at 4:19 pm
Perhaps the depiction is of a not yet discovered dinosaur.
Then again the stegosaurous in the Smithsonian is made up of 30 or so individuals. Perhaps they have a few wrong body parts and the Cambodia depiction is correct.

One might also want to check out this site for other puzzling depictions.

2400bc Says:
February 6th, 2006 at 7:26 pm
Huh?

2400bc Says:
February 6th, 2006 at 7:37 pm
Redoubt -

Actually, skepticism is like a tool - it can be either constructive or destructive, depending on how it is used.

If skepticism is used as a way to avoid reality and maintain imaginary scenarios then it is unhealthy. On the other hand, if it is used to filter-out misunderstandings in order to have a more accurate interpretation of reality then it is healthy.

Skepticism is not just blatantly good, it is neutral, and in a way the end justifies or condemns the means. One can only tell if applied skepticism was constructive or destructive by hindsight.

PokerBass
Acolyte
Posts: 437

more dinosaur images in stone

Post#2 » Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:40 am

http://www.genesispark.org/genpark/ancient/ancient.htm

see the website for a bunch of pictures

--------------------------

ANCIENT DINOSAUR DEPICTIONS ON STONE


To the right is a picture of a dinosaur fighting a mammoth from the book Buried Alive by Dr. Jack Cuozzo (click to enlarge). It was taken by the author in the Bernifal Cave, one of the caverns in France that is renowned for Neanderthal artifacts. The cave has been closed to the public. Science News was given the opportunity to publish the remarkable photo, but declined. It seems that evidence against the prevailing paradigm of naturalistic origin was selected against. It is buried alive by the scientific establishment. As Cuozzo says, this is natural selection in the most literal sense!

"Fran Barnes, a recognized authority on rock art of the American South-West, writes, ‘In the San Rafael Swell, there is a pictograph [picture symbol] that looks very much like a pterosaur, a Cretaceous flying reptile’..." (Swift, Dennis, "Messages on Stone," Creation Ex Nihilo, vol. 19, p. 20). This figure, about 7 feet long from wing-tip to wing-tip, is actually painted with a dark-red pigment. Indians of the Fremont culture are thought to have inhabited the "Swell" between 700 and 1250 A.D. Black Dragon Canyon is named for the pictograph which resembles a large winged reptile with a headcrest.

In 600 BC, under the reign of King Nebuchanezzer,a Babylonian artist was commissioned to shape reliefs of animals on the structures associated with the Ishtar Gate. Centuries later, in 1887 AD, when German archaeologist Robert Koldeway stumbled upon the blue-glazed brick, that gate was rediscovered. The animals appear in alternating rows with lions, fierce bulls (rimi or reems in Chaldean), and curious long-necked dragons (sirrush). The lions and bulls would have been present at that time in the Middle East. But, on what creature did the ancient Babylonians model the dragon? The same word, sirrush, is mentioned in the book of Bel and the Dragon, from the Apocrypha. Both the description there and the image on these unearthed walls (see right), which are now displayed in the Berlin Vorderasiatisches Museum, appear to fit a sauropod dinosaur. (Shuker, Karl P.N., "The Sirrush of Babylon," Dragons: A Natural History, 1995, pp. 70-73.)

The ancient Sumatrans produced multiple pieces of art depicting long-tailed, long-necked creatures with a headcrest. Some of these animals resemble hadrosaurs. This particular work (Ethnographical Museum, Budapest) depicts a creature that bears a striking resemblence to a Corythosaurus which is being hunted by these ancient Indonesian peoples. (Bodrogi, Tibor, Art of Indonesia, plate #10, 1973.)

The February 26, 2000 issue of Science News contained an article that commenting on an artifact housed at the Boston Museum of Fine Arts that has come to be known as the Hesione vase (Hesman, 2000). Pictured on this ancient Greek vase is a series of somewhat unusual paintings, including one that portrays a monster that possesses the head of a dinosaur. This pottery was created around 550 B.C., and depicts the Greek hero Heracles rescuing Hesione from this "monster of Troy." Forced to concede the amazingly realistic dinosaurian depiction, Science News concluded that the paintings on this unusual vase simply prove that ancient people dug fossils, too.

To the left is an urn from Caria, which was located in Asia Minor (Turkey). This artifact (described in Thomas H. Carpenter’s 1991 book Art and Myth in Ancient Greece: A Handbook) is estimated to be from 530 BC. It depicts what appears to be a mosasaurus with several known sea creatures. The animal behind the sea serpent is a seal, while an octopus is below the sea serpent along with what seems to be a dolphin. The thick jaws, big teeth, large eyes, and positioning of the flippers on this creature match a mosasaurus skeleton very well. Some mosasaurus species also had a narrow cranial crest behind the eye that may have had a fin attached the way it is depicted on the Carian urn.


The art below is from an Mesopotamian cylinder seal dated at 3300 BC. (Moortgart, Anton, The Art of Ancient Mesopotamia, 1969, plate 292.) The animal on the right is an artists conception from a skeleton of an Apatasaurus. There are many striking similarities between these two depictions. The legs and feet on the Egyptian art clearly fit the saurapods better than any other type of animal. The biggest difference is at the head. Cartilage forming the shape of a frill or ears may be stylized or accurate (since there is no way to know from the skeletons we have today). As for the musculature, the Egyptian artist draws with stunning realism. One has to ask where the artist got the model to draw so convincingly the trunk of a saurapod?


An Egyptian seal with the cartouche (official name enscribed within an oval) of Tutmosis III (appx. 1400 B.C.) depicts a Sauropterygia like animal (type of plesiosaur). The anterior and posterior flippers are distinctively represented with the narrow connection to the rotund body of the creature. The seal is from the Mitry collection and is of unquestioned authenticity. The ancient Egyptians are known for their keen observation and accurate zoological representations, particularly with regard to sea creatures. Other such seals in the Mitry collection appear to have dinosaurian representations as well.

The January 2003 issue of National Geographic magazine presents an artifact described as a "cosmetic palette . . . from a cemetery of the first dynasties in Manshaat Ezzat." These long-necked creatures displayed on page 78 fit the pattern of other ancient dinosaur-like depictions, including arching, muscular necks and stout bodies.


To the right is a Roman mosaic from about 200 AD that depicts two long-necked sea dragons. Paul Taylor, author of The Great Dinosaur Mystery and the Bible, likens them to the web-footed Tanystropheus shown beside.

To the left is another beautiful mosaic that was one of the wonders of the second century world. Called the Nile Mosaic of Palestrina, it depicts Nile scenes from Egypt all the way to Ethiopia. Scholars now believe this is the work of Demetrius the Topographer, an artist from Alexandria who came to work in Rome. The top portion of this remarkable piece of art is generally believed to depict African animals being hunted by black-skinned warriors. These Ethiopians are pursuing what appears to be some type of dinosaur. The Greek Letters above the reptilian animal in question are: KROKODILOPARDALIS which is literally translated Crocodile-Leopard. The picture shown here is only a small portion of the massive mosaic. It also contains clear depictions of known animals, including Egyptian crocodiles and hippos. (Finley, The Light of the Past, 1965, p. 93.)

"An ancient Mayan relief sculpture of a peculiar bird with reptilian characteristics has been discovered in Totonacapan, in northeastern section of Veracruz, Mexico. José Diaz-Bolio, a Mexican archaeologist-journalist responsible for the discovery, says there is evidence that the serpent-bird sculpture, located in the ruins of Tajín, is not merely the product of Mayan flights of fancy, but a realistic representation of an animal that lived during the period of the ancient Mayans - 1,000 to 5,000 years ago. If indeed such serpent-birds were contemporary with the ancient Mayan culture, the relief sculpture represents a startling evolutionary oddity. Animals with such characteristics are believed to have disappeared 130 million years ago." (Anonymous, "Serpent-Bird of the Mayans," Science Digest, vol. 64 November 1968, p. 1)


The picture to the right (click to enlarge) was drawn by North American Indians that lived in the area that has now become Natural Bridges National Monument in the western United States. Even noted anti-creationists agree that it resembles a dinosaur and that the brownish film which has hardened over the picture attests to its age. A native warrior and an apatosaur-like creature are depicted.

A similar petroglyph (carved rock drawing) has been found in Arizona’s Havasupai Canyon (photo taken by Dr. DeLancy). In the far right picture, Paul Taylor compares this ancient drawing to the Edmontosaurus.

There are stories of a plesiosaur-like creature seen in Queensland, Australia. Both aboriginal peoples around Lake Galilee and tribes farther up to the north tell of a long-necked animal with a large body and flippers. "Elders of the Kuku Yalanji aboriginal tribe of Far North Queensland, Australia, relate stories of Yarru (or Yarrba), a creature which used to inhabit rain forest water holes. The painting [left] depicts a creature with features remarkably similar to a plesiosaur. It even shows an outline of the gastro-intestinal tract, indicating that these animals had been hunted and butchered." (CEN Technical Journal, Vol.12, No. 3, 1998, p. 345.)

There are some clearly ancient engravings in dolerite and gneiss that have been found in Bushmanland, South Africa. Amongst the many depictions, dinosaur footprints, and other artifacts in this region; two are of special interest. One resembles a sauropod dinosaur and the other looks like an attempt to depict a pterosaur.

An Egyptian seal (right) depicts a large pterosaur hunting a gazelle (Giveon, R., "Scarabs From Recent Excavations in Israel," Orbis Biblicus et Orientalis 83, 1988, p. 70.) The leaf shaped tail vane of the pterosaur is unmistakable. The long reptilian head has the double crest of a Scaphognathus above it. The two wings even exhibit the unique corrugated features seen in the Solnhofen Rhamphorhynchus fossil and the claws of a pterosaur. The level of detail is similar to that for the gazelle. The seal dates from 1300-1150 B.C. and is now in the Tel Aviv University’s Institute of Archaeology. Similarly, an Egyptian statue residing in a Berlin museum depicts legs with toes and claws, three wing claws; a prototagium (a portion of the wing above the arm known from pterosaur fossil impressions); and a tail vane. That pterosaur is shown hunting a falcon and also appeared to have the dental structure of a Scaphognathus. (Goertzen, John, "The Rhamphorhynchoid Pterosaur Scaphognathus crassirostris: A ‘Living Fossil’ Until the 17th Century," 1998 ICC Paper.)

European reports of flying serpent living in Egypt persist through the 1600’s. The Italian naturalist Prosper Alpin wrote a fascinating natural history of Egypt in the 1580’s. He describes their crest, a small piece of skin on the head, their tail being "thick as a finger," their length being "as long as a palm branch," and their leaf-shaped tail. (Alpin, P., Histoire Naturelle de l'Egypte, tr. by R. de Fenoyl, 1979, pp. 407-409.) All is precisely like modern fossil reconstructions. A French wooden image, dating from the 16th century, also displays remarkable features of a pterosaur. There are two wings that clearly appear to have ribbed membranes rather than feathers. There appears to be a small head crest above and slightly in front of the eyes, the distinctive tail vane, and a hint of the twin skin flap above and behind the bony crest that is quite like the Egyptian seal.

The next drawing is from a 17th century German tract about the dangers of witches and witchcraft. Witches are accused of causing houses to spontaneously combust. The pterosaurs depicted flying in the background, with characteristic headcrests and tails, were apparently associated with witches. (Trevor-Roper, "The Persecution of Witches," 1965.) Many accounts from that time period describe creatures that sound suspiciously like pterodactyls. An official government report from 1793 states: "In the end of November and beginning of December last, many of the country people observed dragons appearing in the north and flying rapidly towards the east; from which they concluded, and their conjectures were right, that...boisterous weather would follow." ("Flying Dragons at Aberdeen," A Statistical Account of Scotland, 1793, p. 467.)

A dragon was said to live in the wetlands near Rome in December of 1691. This creature lived in a cave and supposedly terrorized the local population. A sketch of the skeleton has survived in the possession of Ingegniero Cornelio Meyer (right). The most remarkable thing about the animal is the clear head crest and the dual piece of skin from the crest. Five digits were clearly visible for each foot, of the proper length and with the first shorter and offset from the rest as is proper for the Scaphognathus. There is a hint of a wing claw on the far wing where it curves forward. The membraned wings are in front of the legs, on the vertebrae, matching the fossils. The femur is properly shown as a single bone. The tibia and fibula, the twin lower leg bones, are visible too. Although some have suggested that it could be a fossil or a faked composite, it is much too accurate to be a fabrication. The survival of the skin suggests that it is not a fossil since it includes accurate wing features, a head crest, and the ears. (Goertzen, John, "The Rhamphorhynchoid Pterosaur Scaphognathus crassirostris: A ‘Living Fossil’ Until the 17th Century," 1998 ICC Paper.)

"A fantastic mystery has developed over a set of cave paintings found in the Gorozomzi Hills, 25 miles from Salisbury. For the paintings include a brontosaurus - the 67-foot, 30-ton-like creature scientists believed became extinct millions of years before man appeared on earth. Yet the bushmen who did the paintings ruled Rhodesia from only 1500 b.c. until a couple of hundred years ago. And the experts agree that the bushmen always painted from life. This belief is borne out by other Gorozomzi Hills cave paintings - accurate representations of the elephant, hippo, buck and giraffe. The mysterious pictures were found by Bevan Parkes, who owns the land the caves are on. Adding to the puzzle of the rock paintings found by Parkes is a drawing of a dancing bear. As far as scientists know, bears have never lived in Africa." (Anonymous, "Bushmen’s Paintings Baffling to Scientists," Evening News, January 1, 1970, London Express Service, printed in Los Angeles Herald-Examiner, January 7, 1970.) To the left is just such a rock painting from a cave at Nachikufu near Mpika in northern Zimbabwe (formerly Rhodesia). It shows three long-necked, long-tailed creatures sketched in white. (Clark, Desmond J., The Rock Paintings of Northern Rhodesia and Nyasaland, in Summers, Rogers, Rock Art of Central Africa, 1959, pp. 28-29, 194.)

Iron sculptures made by the Bambara peoples of Mali Africa in the 1800’s display a three-horned creature with what appears to be a neck frill. The specimens shown here, part of Genesis Park’s collection, exhibit dinosaurian characteristics. One shows top horns pointed forward and the neck frill extending halfway down the animal’s back, much like the ceratopsian dinosaur Chasmosaurus. The long tail, squat arched body, and sprawled legs also give it the appearance of a ceratopsian dinosaur. The second, entitled "dinosaurian sculpture," by the exhibiting gallery shows a four-legged creature with a long neck and tail like a sauropod dinosaur. The neck has a slight widening and a ridged frill that makes it a fascinating depiction.

In 1924 some Roman style lead artifacts were excavated near Tucson, AZ (see right). Described on p. 331 of David Hatcher’s book The Lost Cities of North & Central America is the unique carvings on these implements, particularly a clear dinosaur depiction on a sword. The Arizona Historical Society still has the sword.

A plated and horned creature has also been discovered in Cree Indian art (far left) on the Agawa Rock at Misshepezhieu, Lake Superior Provincial Park, Ontario, Canada. Also to the left is pictured an Inca Ceremonial Burial Stones that is likely from the Nasca culture. In 1571 the Spanish conquistadors brought back stories that there were stones with strange creatures carved on them found in this region of Peru. Today, over 1100 such stones have been found by Dr. Javier Cabrera. In the early 1930's, his father found many of these ceremonial burial stones in Ica's numerous Peruvian tombs and noted that dinosaur-like creatures were represented on some of them. Lower left is a "therapod stone" procured by geologist Dr. Don Patton. Retired from the University of Lima, Dr. Cabrera has focused upon validating these finds within the scientific community. His credibility is strengthened by long-necked creatures displayed on pottery in the museum of Lima and beautiful tapestries from the Nasca tombs (ca 700 AD) with a repeating pattern that looks like dinosaurs. Indeed, the depictions on some of the Ica Stones show the sauropod dinosaurs with a crest of spines much like that discovered by Paleontologist Stephen Czerkas. "Recent discovery of fossilized sauropod (diplodocid) skin impressions reveals a significantly different appearance for these dinosaurs. The fossilized skin demonstrates that a median row of spines was present... Some are quite narrow, and others are broader and more conical." (Geology, "New Look for Sauropod Dinosaurs," December, 1992, p. 1,068.)" Also, of interest is the fact that the skin of many of the carved dinosaurs resembled bumpy rosettes. Some scientists had pointed to this as evidence that these stones were not scientifically accurate. However, more recent discoveries of fossilized dinosaur skin and embryos have silenced these same critics. For example, Luis Chiappe and colleagues discussed certain sauropod dinosaur embryos found in South America: "The general skin pattern consists of round, non-overlapping, tubercle-like scales.... A rosette pattern of scales is present in PVPH-130" (Chiappe, et al., 1998, p. 259).

In 1945 archeologist Waldemar Julsrud discovered clay figurines buried at the foot of El Toro Mountain on the outskirts of Acambaro, Mexico. Eventually over 33,000 ceramic figurines were found in the area and identified with the Pre-classical Chupicuaro Culture (800 BC to 200 AD). The authenticity of Julsrud’s find has been challenged because the huge collection included dinosaurs. In 1954 the Mexican government sent a team of archeologists to investigate. In 1955 Charles Hapgood, professor of Anthropology at UNH, conducted an elaborate investigation including extensive radiometric dating and thermoluminescent testing by the University of Pennsylvania. In 1990 an investigation was conducted by Neal Steedy, an archeologist who works with the Mexican government. Thus Julsrud’s work has survived numerous tests and the Mexican government has even imprisoned two men for selling these artifacts on the black market. Moreover, the dinosaurs are modeled in very agile, active poses, fitting well with the latest scientific evidence and lending credence to the artists having actually observed these creatures. Like the Ica Stones, some sauropod’s are depicted with a distinctive spinal frill. There was extinct ice-age horse remains, the skeleton of a woolly mammoth, and a number of ancient human skulls found at the same location as the ceramic artifacts, validating the antiquity of the site (Hapgood, Charles, 2000, p.82). Further evidence of the authenticity of Julsrud’s finds is the Iguanodon dinosaur figurine. In the 1940s and 1950s, the Iguanodon was completely unknown. No hoaxer could have known of the Iguanodon’s existence, much less made a model, for it wasn’t until 1978 or 1979 that skeletons of adult Iguanodons were found with nests and babies.

"In the 1960’s, a leading jewel designer called Emanuel Staub was commissioned by the University of Pennsylvania...to produce replicas of a series of small gold weights obtained in Ghana. ...So well crafted were they that the animals that they depicted could be instantly identified by zoologists--all but one, that is, which could not be satisfactorily reconciled with any known animal, until Staub saw it." (Shuker, Dr. Karl P.N., In Search of Prehistoric Survivors, 1995, p. 20.) Originally photographed resting on its hind legs (as if bipedal), this enigmatic Ashanti gold figurine was difficult to identify. Once properly positioned, Staub noted that the mysterious artifact bears a striking resemblance to a dinosaur. Perhaps this figurine was an attempt to model the sauropod Mokele-mbembe creature that is said to inhabit remote regions of equatorial Africa still today.


To the right are displayed a slate palette from Hierakonpolis showing the triumph of King Nar-mer with long necked dragons and an ancient palette depicting a pair of "dinosaur-like" creatures along with numerous clear representations of living animals (taken from p. 93 of Pritchard’s book The Ancient Near East in Pictures).

At a museum in Manitou Springs, Colorado, there is an unusual carved artifact. It is an Indian prayer stick (see below left), roughly a foot long, with a crested head, eyes on both sides, and beaked mouth. The beautiful artistic work stands out as strikingly like a pterodactyl!

This portrayal from a Saxon shield (below right) reveals a pterosaur-like creature at rest. The wings are folded back along its scale-like sides, a long beak full of teeth, crest, and an unmistakable tail vane all make the depiction compelling. The flying reptile widfloga (or far-ranging flyer) was known to the Saxons and this shield-boss came from the Sutton Hoo burial site. It is displayed at the British Museum.



Another pterosaur-like depiction from the Middle Ages (see right) is shown in Athanasius Kircher’s 1678 book Mundus Subterraneus. This drawing is so compelling that Peter Wellnhofer (The Illustrated Encyclopedia of Pterosaurs, 1991, p. 20.) suggests it might have been based on fossil finds. But it is more likely based on even more ancient reports. In Kircher’s book, the character Winkelried was supposed to have killed the dragon in Switzerland during the earliest days of his particular settlement. The most obvious anatomical discrepancy with pterosaurs (the front feet) was a more recent addition to dragon depictions. G. E. Smith’s 1919 book, The Evolution of the Dragon explains that ancient notions only included a snake-like body, leathery wings like a bat, and two legs. The front legs were not added till the 16th century.

According to the Greek mythology a heroic figure named Jason, son of Aeson, captured a golden fleece that was guarded by a hissing dragon. This legend of Jason charming the Dragon is memorialized in a beautiful painting (see left) by the multi-talented European artist Salvator Rosa (1615-1673). It is remarkable in its likeness to a pterosaurian. From where did Rosa get this inspiration?

In 1496 the Bishop of Carlisle, Richard Bell, was buried in Carlisle Cathedral in the U.K. The tomb is inlaid with brass, with various animals engraved upon it (see right). Although worn by the countless feet that walked over it since the Middle Ages, a particular depiction is unmistakable in its similarity to a dinosaur. Amongst the birds, dog, eel, etc. this clear representation of two long-necked creatures should be considered evidence that man and dinosaurs co-existed.

One would think that such hard evidence would be highly problematic for evolutionary theory. Indeed Dr. Philip Kitcher, in his anti-creationist book Abusing Science, claims that solid evidence that dinosaurs and man co-existed would "shake the foundations of evolutionary theory." (1998, p. 121) Likewise, Strahler insists that "it is conceivable that a scientist will some day discover human bones among dinosaur bones in such a relationship that it is judged highly likely that humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time. Such a finding would deal a crushing blow to the widely favored hypothesis of a unique evolutionary sequence. In Popper language, the hypothesis of evolution would be falsified." (Strahler, Arthur N., Science and Earth History: The Evolution /Creation Controversy, 1999, p. 17.) Unfortunately the history of Darwinian theories suggests that all such evidence would quickly be assimilated into evolution theory. But one can at least hope that as more evidence comes to light, the credibility of the evolutionary story-tellers will at last wear thin!

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